tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post8858751790092868773..comments2024-03-28T06:30:58.474-07:00Comments on Old European culture: Linkardstown cistsoldeuropeanculturehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-20861186615660830012020-10-23T14:43:18.033-07:002020-10-23T14:43:18.033-07:00Well...What I meant was that the Vinca like symbol...Well...What I meant was that the Vinca like symbols start appearing in Mesopotamia, India, Egypt, right after the Vinca culture ended...Don't know if this is a coincidence or not...People travel, exchange ideas...As for Ireland: Look at the two breads at the the end... http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2016/12/newgrange.htmloldeuropeanculturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-2054459148790724292020-10-23T06:45:02.514-07:002020-10-23T06:45:02.514-07:00@ oldeuropeanculture
"4500 BC is also the ti...@ oldeuropeanculture<br /><br />"4500 BC is also the time when whe see dispersal of the Vinca symbols over the huge area, from Ireland to India and Egypt"<br /><br /><br />Do you mean the similarity between Vinca inscriptions and Egyptian potmarks, or something else?Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386123430230365251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-23532121775558647762018-11-24T12:16:08.726-08:002018-11-24T12:16:08.726-08:00I agree with Serbian Irish. Modern populations of ...I agree with Serbian Irish. Modern populations of Serbia and Montenegro may have some residual of the ancient peoples, especially in the remotest areas, but there is no reason to try to undo centuries of disruption and invasion dating back to the time of the Latins through the Turkish invasions. I explored from Ireland to the Hindu Kush, traced the migratory route to the west and back east...linguistic evidence, genetic, literary and material are in condorc with the Serbian Cousin. Who am I? One of the stock of an ancient chiefly family of Munster, Ireland, a Celtic-speaking Rib1a.....the golden sun disks are an important bit of evidence, so is the place of origin of the ore used to fabricate. Some of it came from Ireland. Important Serbian scholars largely agree with me, or rather, I with them. The Balkan Celts had a major Q-Celtic component or substratum. Q-Celtic survived in Switzerland into the 18th century, and in villages in Ukraine and Galicia Spain into the 17th century. What of that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11193490842813336502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-55403101753255328822018-09-13T00:42:32.074-07:002018-09-13T00:42:32.074-07:00According to the Lebor Gabála Érenn Partholon was ...According to the Lebor Gabála Érenn Partholon was the son of Sera, son of Sru, a descendant of Magog, son of Japheth (see Japhetites), son of Noah. Partholón and his people sail to Ireland via Gothia, Anatolia, Greece, Sicily and Iberia, and landing at Inber Scéne (Kenmare in County Kerry). Greece was at the time of the writing of the Lebor Gabála Érenn synonym for Balkansoldeuropeanculturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-34820445942931927112018-09-12T18:25:11.399-07:002018-09-12T18:25:11.399-07:00Hi there,
Just to clarify, where in the Irish anna...Hi there,<br />Just to clarify, where in the Irish annals does it mention a Balkan-Irish Migration? I don't believe that in any of the standard invasion myths that this is mentioned.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02193588072448588822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-27106138928445466582016-04-29T11:36:07.178-07:002016-04-29T11:36:07.178-07:00"...you're with your intention to somehow..."...you're with your intention to somehow relate these findings and those populations with those of modern Montenegro and Serbia." <br />I did not mention once any nation anywhere. I am stopping this conversation right now. I don't talk chauvinists who look at even neolithic and copper age from nationalistic point of view. Any further comment from you will be deleted. oldeuropeanculturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-62696305135186902072016-04-29T10:40:10.730-07:002016-04-29T10:40:10.730-07:00There have been genetic studies, cite from Eupedia...There have been genetic studies, cite from Eupedia "Nevertheless, substantial minorities of other haplogroups have been found on different Neolithic sites next to a G2a majority, including C1a2, I2 and H2 in Anatolia and Southeast Europe, E-M78, I*, I1, I2a, I2a1 in Central and Southeast Europe (LBK, Starčevo) and E-V13 and I2a in the West Mediterranean (Cardium Pottery)". Starcevo culture preceded Vinca (and later the Vucedol which probably was a mix of pre-IE and IE cultures). If we see "4500 BC is also the time when whe see dispersal of the Vinca symbols over the huge area, from Ireland to India and Egypt" then haplogroup I2a has nothing to do with the simbol (as well was in minority in those parts of Europe), yet G2a as it arrived from the Fertile Crescent, Caucasus, Anatolia, as well spread in Egypt and India. <br /><br />Why didn't mention what page/section? The annals route is probably influenced by the biblical more-or-less myths and historical accounts, also, the route "Azov area, Anatolia, Montenegro (Greece, Thrace?), Sicily, Iberia, Ireland" more looks like some later route of Christians as well seemingly has nothing to do with both R1b and I2a, perhaps even G2a, yet mostly haplogroups J2 and E.<br /><br />Genetically, the Proto-Celtic carriers had R1b haplogroup like modern Celts (Brittonic, Gaelic) speakers. The found artifacts aren't evidence they first appeared in Montenegro, and spread to Western Europe.<br /><br />I am not patronizing, you're with your intention to somehow relate these findings and those populations with those of modern Montenegro and Serbia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-69242368813396725702016-04-29T01:28:54.842-07:002016-04-29T01:28:54.842-07:00"Indo-Europeans arrived from Irealand to Mont..."Indo-Europeans arrived from Irealand to Montenegro" where did you see this? Where did you see me using word Indoeuropean in relation to this?<br /><br />"Vinca culture was very old and perished c. 4500 BC, almost 2000 years before your theory..."<br /><br />The way the Vinca culture might have disappeared from the river valies of the Balkans aroun 4500 BC, but that was not the end of the Vinca culture. <br /><br />The site called Torine in the Northern Montenegrian mountains, which is a seasonal shepherds highland settlement, shows unbroken cultural layers where in the earliest we have vinca figurines and they go all the way until the late medieval time....Seems some Vincans escaped into the Dinaric mountains and took to sheep herding...The descendants of these people were in the Dinaric mountains when the Yamna people arrived. And they are still in the Dinaric mountains. I believe that these people are I2a people. That Vinca people were I2a is of course my theory. based on the fact that we find I2 genes in all early European metallurgial sites. We of course have no data from Vinca sites, so until then this is just a theory. <br /><br />By the way, 4500 BC is also the time when whe see dispersal of the Vinca symbols over the huge area, from Ireland to India and Egypt. <br /><br />"...we could talk about broad Danube culture, not only Vinca..." Yes we could, but I prefer to call this culture Vinca culture, which was its original name, from before it was cool to talk about "Old Europe". <br /><br />"Yamna culture was older and mainly in Eastern Europe. Don't use its name." And this is why these Montenegrian tumuluses are so important. They are Yamna in their oldest incarnation (late 4th millennium bc) and then they develop into something resembling Linkardstown cists over next 500 years. And again I can use any name I want and find appropriate. <br /><br />"Those R1b Proto-Celtic people came with Corded Ware or Bell Beaker culture. Actually, firmly think it has to be Bell Beaker as it really arrived in Britain and people predominantly had R1b haplogroup. "Beakers arrived in Britain (and Ireland) around 2500 BC..."<br /><br />First what does this have to do with Celts? Second you really have to read the articles, as it is obvious, from comments like this, that you didn't read them. Montenegro is the place where we see development of the proto Beaker people, the metalurgical, sun worshiping, stone cist building all appeared first in Montenegro and then spread to Western Europe, I believe by water (seas and rivers). <br /><br />"On what page/section is written in the Irish Annals that they arrived from the Balkan?"<br /><br />I am still to talk about it. The route is Azov area, Anatolia, Montenegro, Sicily, Iberia, Ireland...<br /><br />"I am trying to critically help you if you didn't understand." Don't be patronizingoldeuropeanculturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-78864012640526424172016-04-28T17:27:31.856-07:002016-04-28T17:27:31.856-07:00I have read the posts and understood them very wel...I have read the posts and understood them very well - however, you're reasoning and using the word "proof" is not reasonable. As well, there's almost none possibility for now to assume that Indo-Europeans arrived from Irealand to Montenegro - that's just illogical, and against the date of meghalith structures in Montenegro. As well, Vinca culture was very old and perished c. 4500 BC, almost 2000 years before your theory. Also, what we consider by Vinca culute other cultures in vicinity from Slovenia to Romania and Ukraine had similar cultures and script, and we could talk about broad Danube culture, not only Vinca. What was the DNA of Vinca people and people from this meghalith graves? How vast was the DNA heterogenity? We don't know, and thus cannot assume such direct continuity. Again no, Yamna culture was older and mainly in Eastern Europe. Don't use its name. Those R1b Proto-Celtic people came with Corded Ware or Bell Beaker culture. Actually, firmly think it has to be Bell Beaker as it really arrived in Britain and people predominantly had R1b haplogroup. "Beakers arrived in Britain (and Ireland) around 2500 BC, declined in use around 2200-2100 BC with the emergence of food vessels and cinerary urns and finally fell out of use around 1700 BC (Needham 1996)". This culture and migration corresponds with your theory, as well genetic and carbondating result on those three men. On what page/section is written in the Irish Annals that they arrived from the Balkan? I am trying to critically help you if you didn't understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-68541562032773311302016-04-28T13:41:48.436-07:002016-04-28T13:41:48.436-07:00I don't think you read the articles properly. ...I don't think you read the articles properly. I did state that there was a cultural development which happened in Montenegro at the beginning of the 3rd millennium bc as a result of mixing of the Yamna people and some local population (I believe Vinca descendants who survived in the Dinaric alps, or people who arrived to Montenegro from Ireland, again I believe Vinca descendants). A very late Vinca settlement was found in Northern Montenegro, currently under excavation. It proves direct cultural continuity from Vinca to Bronze age cultures of Montenegro. As for the bones you talk about they point that the people were R1b and came from Yamna, exactly as the Irish Annals state. The Irish annals also state that these people came via Balkans, and in Montenegro we find golden cross discs which are the only known predecessors of the Irish golden cross discs. Maybe you should read the articles againoldeuropeanculturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-65121982167146937022016-04-28T12:57:39.323-07:002016-04-28T12:57:39.323-07:00I have read it and sorry, but no - it did not happ...I have read it and sorry, but no - it did not happen (yet). A myth is not an evidence for a migration. Did I missed something - what genetic proof? What haplogroups? Y DNA, mtDNA research? Recently (http://irishpost.co.uk/ancient-bones-2000-bc-discovered-antrim-pub-challenge-everything-thought-knew-ireland-celts/) were found three men in Northern Ireland: "The research suggests that the three skeletons are the ancestors of the modern Irish. It is believed they existed prior to the Celt arrival, by about 1,000 years or more. The research published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science journal, stated that the most striking feature of the bones was how much their DNA resembled that of contemporary Irish, Welsh and Scots. Other findings of bones in Ireland have been likened to Mediterranean people. Radiocarbon dating revealed that the remains found at the pub in Co. Antrim date back to about 2000 BC." If those men are genetically related to modern "Celtic" people, then it has to be Y DNA R1b haplogroup. This finding confirms Proto-Celts arrived even before, however, 1500-2000 BC does not overlap with 3000 - 2700 BC in Montenegro, but is very close to cross discs found in Ireland, according to your post, 2500 - 2200(!) BC, or how "Seathrún Céitinn's Foras Feasa ar Érinn says that Patholon arrived to Ireland in 2061 BC". The Fomorians, if not related to the IE, would have been haplogroup I. However, again - is there any evidence that Indo-Europeans (or Proto-Celts) built such meghalith structures when arrived in Europe? Only if they had such a culture we can relate Proto-Celts to them, otherwise we are dealing with pre-Proto-Celtic population culture, which this Proto-Celts with assimilation could have absorbed as their own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-30723147588942882282016-04-28T09:34:37.679-07:002016-04-28T09:34:37.679-07:00"Why is there a need for Montenegro, actually..."Why is there a need for Montenegro, actually Balkan-Ireland migration?"<br /><br />There is no need for it. It just did happen. Irish annals recorded this migration. And now we have proof, both archaeological and genetic, that, at least in this case, the Irish annals are actual historical records.. <br /><br />You should read the full series of articles about the Montenegrian tumuluses. That would give you better Idea what I am talking about. <br /><br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2015/07/bjelopavlici-tumulus.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2015/07/mogila-na-rake.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2015/09/mala-i-velika-gruda-tumuluses.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2015/11/gruda-boljevica.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2016/01/partholon-and-great-flood.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2016/03/development-of-montenegrian-tumuluses.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2016/03/linkardstown-cists.html<br />http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2016/03/ring-cairns.htmloldeuropeanculturehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07880222013739472782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8743102750721348863.post-90273397703614220102016-04-27T15:16:29.679-07:002016-04-27T15:16:29.679-07:00Were this type of megalith structures in Europe pa...Were this type of megalith structures in Europe part of pre-Indo-European population culture? The construction of these structures took place mainly in the Neolithic (though earlier Mesolithic examples are known) and continued into the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age. How are IE Kurgans related to these meghaliths? Did IE assimilate other population customs and influence? Were IE known for such "unrefined" structures? Why is there a need for Montenegro, actually Balkan-Ireland migration? Population with such specific custom of building could have lived throughout Europe. It is considered that the Indo-Europeans (ancestors of Celts) in 1500 BC still did not arrive in Britain. Other while speculate that some Late Iron Age migration did happen, but it's still not confirmed on what basis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com